Snake break/avoidance

Newb

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Had my new pup out to Prado for the second time in here life and she ran right past and around a big rattler and came home with a tic I found engorged a couple days later.

I'm not going back until I get her snake "broken".

Seems to me from a limited amount of research, the old "show em a rattler then shock the hell out of them" seems to be not the style, and this guy in Arizona Web Parton has the dogs spend a couple hours on it with a little milder feedback. But he's only in Arizona. My older dog definitely got the zapper set on 100 for her training.

Who to use? Who to contact?

Thanks in advance.
 

DKScott

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Newb said:
Had my new pup out to Prado for the second time in here life and she ran right past and around a big rattler and came home with a tic I found engorged a couple days later.

I'm not going back until I get her snake "broken".

Seems to me from a limited amount of research, the old "show em a rattler then shock the hell out of them" seems to be not the style, and this guy in Arizona Web Parton has the dogs spend a couple hours on it with a little milder feedback. But he's only in Arizona. My older dog definitely got the zapper set on 100 for her training.

Who to use? Who to contact?

Thanks in advance.
Parton has a pretty lengthy/expensive course. I spoke with a couple guys that put their dogs through it, and I'm sure its effective, but I'm less convinced its necessary. Plus you have to go to AZ. The normal method repeated a year later seems fine. My dogs encounter snakes all the time and don't want anything to do with them. Bob Kettle is a real pro and has done my dogs, but I'm not sure when he will be around. Bob Worrell would know. SA training has become popular with the pet crowd so beware of "new" or "affection training" methods, use of dead snakes and hippies selling false security to pet owners. They are out there. The only method that works uses multiple live rattlesnakes, a shock collar and sight, sound, smell encounters. It is pain-based aversion training pure and simple. In my experience, it matters who does it. Timing is everything and there is definitely an art to it. The amount of stimulation depends on the dog.

Fred Presson is probably worth a call. I have not used him, but many people I know have. SoCal NAVHDA just had a clinic last month, but the guy they use, Andy Andrews (who I have also used), is doing a clinic in San Clemente July 22. - http://www.socalk9training.com/rattlesnake-avoidance/
 

wiggie

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Raney did my dog..........I went when she was about 6 months and then a year later. She will be 8 in a couple weeks and doesn't want anything to do with any kind of reptile.
 

Hunt'EmUp

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Andy Andrews the guy that runs the Etiwanda Game Association does it, he keeps several local snakes on site. Can't seem to find his number, but perhaps a member can hook you up. He's done all my dogs he's good at reading dogs, places the snake out in the hunting environment. Other guys I've tried tend to shock the crap out of the dogs, even hauling the dog up to snakes on lead to ensure they get hit; after doing so they then expect them to still be able to hunt birds, or have a good collar relationship ;).
 

DKScott

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This is the last number I have for Andy:

760-792-2337

IIRC, he is up in Hesperia at the Etiwanda Game Club. He told me once that if anyone can get 10 or 12 people to commit, he will hold a clinic just about anywhere in socal.
 

popx5

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Andy did Casey at 9 months. Fred did him a 2 years as a refresher. Both did a great job and I’m convinced prevented many bad encounters over the years. Fred didn’t even need to juice him, as he knew the drill. None the less I think it’s good to do a refresher. Casey has encountered at least 3 that I know of in the field and immediately fled and cowered away. No telling how many more that I didn’t see him flee from.
 

JCB

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Just did our 8 month old lab last weekend at Raney Ranch for $75. They had 5 snakes, 4 spread out (in brush/grass, on a dirt road, near some wood piles, etc) and one in a bucket. A couple of them never rattled, they were for sight and smell. The bucket with holes was for smell only and the other 2 were angry SOBs that rattled and coiled up. They adjusted the stimulation based on the dogs age and prior exposure to e-collars. I watched at least 6-7 dogs before ours and it never seemed like the stimulation was over the top. I think focusing on all the senses and then the timing of the stimulation is what makes it so effective. Fingers crossed the pup got the message!
 

slinky_70

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Curious as to how they do live training with rattlers. I would be so afraid of the dog going right into them
 

ilovesprig

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Fred's snakes have a bottle over the head.....No chance of hitting dog.

.
 

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Skeet

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If anyone hears of Andy putting one on I'd be interested
 

BIRDMAN

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Skeet said:
If anyone hears of Andy putting one on I'd be interested
Yeah, I know there is also an outfit at bass pro rancho several time a year, may be same.
 

TonyS

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Not to be contrary but my dog got the training from my friend, Web. The next day he found a buzzworm and jumped back 4 feet. Now four years later, if we find one I get the same reaction.

It is always nice to open a book before you pass judgment.
 

shadowlawnskysthelimit

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Just my 2 cents !!
I took my current yellow lab, Grace, to Web Parton at Rahauges just after she turned 1.
Snakes are not muzzled or caged !!
1st snake had a rattle but no fangs, and had been handled quite a bit. It was placed under a blanket, Mr. Parton took the dogs; there were 6 in our group that day, one at a time up to the blanket. Obviously the could not see it; once close enough he took the device that wranglers pick up snakes with and got it to rattle. That brought the dogs to attention. He lifted the blanket so they would get a nose full, the sound they could hear for sure. After letting the dogs lean in get a whiff and an earfull he backed away. With e-collar on he took them back to the blanket and let them search and lean in, when they got to close he gave them a good zap. Not a real strong zap but good enough to yelp; immediately Web pulled them back like you would want them to back away.
Later he placed a different snake, no fangs, and who hadn’t been handled as much as the first one in a road with wind into the dog. He walked each dog from 75 yards or so right up to the snake; hoping the dog would smell it before it began to rattle. If the dog did not stop and was too curious he let them lean and this time gave them a pretty good zap. This zap got every dogs attention!!!
Mr. Parton repeated this twice.
Later he had a snake with no rattle placed in a bag hanging from a stand about 6-8” off the ground. He walked each dog up to the bag hoping they would get a good whiff and then back away. If they didn’t, they got a stronger zap.
Lastly he placed a snake on a different road than the first. This snake was fully equipped and had not been handled much, if at all. This time each owner walked their own dog down the road, wind into the face. We were told to keep the dogs at heel, but if they were curios left them go and Web would be ready. E-collar was set pretty high this time. With my female she smelled it first, I could tell be her reaction, and heard it second. But to her mistake she got to curious and Web let her have it !!! lol Grace jumped about 4 feet in air, when she hit the ground, she wanted no part of that snake !!
But Mr. Patton did not like her curiosity so he asked us to hang tight and he would do her again after he did the other dogs. On the 2nd try he moved the snake to the opposite side of the road and where she could not see it. This time the snake rattled about the same time she smelled. Grace who heels on the left went behind me on the right and was pulling hard to get away!! A much better response!!!
In the last few years Grace and I have encountered 2 buzz worms; in both instances she knew they were there before I did. Both times she started acting weird and wouldn’t listen to me telling her to come. A few more steps and I knew why!!!
Mr. Parton stated that if my dog ever found a rattler and didn’t back away, to contact him and he would run her thru the process again at no charge. Other trainers I looked at would not give this offer. All in all it was a very good experience; I would recommend the training and Mr. Parton to anyone.
Hope this helps !! Kinda curious how other trainers do the snake avoidance.
 

shadowlawnskysthelimit

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One thing I forgot to mention! Even though the training was more smell an auditory based. Many, many times while walking to the blind in the dark, Grace has stopped like she hit a glass wall when she sees a stick or branch, or even the blind site poles on the ground. It is kinda comical; because she approaches very cautiously until she determines it isn’t a buzz worm !! Lol !!
 
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