Is this even possible?

DKScott

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An accidental discharge of a muzzleloader kills a girl a mile and a half away?
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FREDERICKSBURG, Ohio (AP) -- A man cleaning his muzzle-loading rifle shot the gun into the air, accidentally killing a 15-year-old Amish girl driving a horse-drawn buggy more than a mile away, a sheriff said Tuesday.


http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/US_...-12-20-17-50-11
 

DEERSLAM

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The way I read it yesterday was that the guy was unloading, cleaning out his muzzleloader, by firing the gun...easiest way to unload a muzzleloader.
 

DirtyDave

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What a F*CKING MORON. Any one with half a brain would think that shooting it into a hillside or into the ground would be safer than shooting into the air. Charges need to be filed if he shot it into the air intentionally.
 

Coondog

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I agree.. However you are missing what Scott is asking. I would love for someone to do the ballistics and physics work on this. I am fairly confident that there is no way one of those heavy bullets could travel that far?????
 

bpnclark

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I have a +20 inch drop difference from 100 yards to 200 yards. Theres no way mine can ever make a mile.....
 

carl

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QUOTE (DirtyDave @ Dec 21 2011, 11:27 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=355022
What a F*CKING MORON. Any one with half a brain would think that shooting it into a hillside or into the ground would be safer than shooting into the air. Charges need to be filed if he shot it into the air intentionally.

That sums up where I'm at.
 

weekender21

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It would technically still be lethal if it made it that far but "more than a mile" seems really far with a muzzle loader.
 

hank4elk

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QUOTE (weekender21 @ Dec 22 2011, 09:22 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=355262
It would technically still be lethal if it made it that far but "more than a mile" seems really far with a muzzle loader.
Ditto! But definetly a moron!
 

SCREWLOOSE

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Maybe we can get the guys from Myth Busters to prove/disprove the lethal range of a ML.

Afterall they handled that cannon ball test so well.


I do feel for the family of the girl that was killed.
 

DKScott

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QUOTE (weekender21 @ Dec 22 2011, 09:22 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=355262
It would technically still be lethal if it made it that far but "more than a mile" seems really far with a muzzle loader.



"Technically" how so? Bullets travel beyond the range where they retain enough energy to penetrate and kill. They hit something and bounce off or eventually hit the ground. The only thing I can think of is that the bullet was very heavy and fired at something around a 45 degree angle and as it dropped, its own weight at the velocity, determined by gravity, was enough to be fatal. There is no way the propellant could provide killing energy at that range. But a mile and a half (as stated later in the article) is 7,920 yards and once the projectile ran out of energy it would drop very steeply. Hard to believe a muzzle loader projectile could be fired high enough to drop with that kind of force that far away. Might be a good Myth Busters test.

Whether or not the shooter is an imbecile or should be charged with a crime is irrelevant to the question
 

PORCH

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QUOTE (DKScott @ Dec 22 2011, 11:02 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=355284
QUOTE (weekender21 @ Dec 22 2011, 09:22 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=355262
It would technically still be lethal if it made it that far but "more than a mile" seems really far with a muzzle loader.



"Technically" how so? Bullets travel beyond the range where they retain enough energy to penetrate and kill. They hit something and bounce off or eventually hit the ground. The only thing I can think of is that the bullet was very heavy and fired at something around a 45 degree angle and as it dropped, its own weight at the velocity, determined by gravity, was enough to be fatal. There is no way the propellant could provide killing energy at that range. But a mile and a half (as stated later in the article) is 7,920 yards and once the projectile ran out of energy it would drop very steeply. Hard to believe a muzzle loader projectile could be fired high enough to drop with that kind of force that far away. Might be a good Myth Busters test.

Whether or not the shooter is an imbecile or should be charged with a crime is irrelevant to the question



7,920 feet or 2640 yards
 

just_ducky_1

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Dang Porch is smart!

Yes, DK, the round would need to be fired at a high angle. There is what is called falling rounds. I've studied them before. The most I've heard of was after the fall of Sadam, people took to the streets in celebration shooting AK's in the air. When I was in high school they ran a PSA around New Years about what goes up must come down. Since we couldn't shoot fireworks people, trailer park folks, shot guns.

Like has been said...what a tard.
 

DKScott

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Right .. "feet" - I made a typo... it was late. Still 2,640 yards is a long way. Most modern rounds are said to have a maximum dangerous range of 1 mile (1,760 yards - nyah!)
 

weekender21

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QUOTE (DKScott @ Dec 22 2011, 11:02 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=355284
QUOTE (weekender21 @ Dec 22 2011, 09:22 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=355262
It would technically still be lethal if it made it that far but "more than a mile" seems really far with a muzzle loader.



"Technically" how so? Bullets travel beyond the range that retain enough energy to penetrate and kill. They hit something and bounce off or eventually hit the ground. The only thing I can think of is that the bullet was very heavy and fired at something around a 45 degree angle and as it dropped, its own weight at the velocity, determined by gravity, was enough to be fatal. There is no way the propellant could provide killing energy at that range. But a mile and a half (as stated later in the article) is 7,920 yards and once the projectile ran out of energy it would drop very steeply. Hard to believe a muzzle loader projectile could be fired high enough to drop with that kind of force that far away. Might be a good Myth Busters test.

Whether or not the shooter is an imbecile or should be charged with a crime is irrelevant to the question


You just answered your own question DK. I'm already assuming what you said, the only way for that ML bullet to make it that far is if the moron in question fired it from an extreme angle, roughly 45 degrees as you stated would be about right. Most guys I know that hunt with muzzle loaders are using 250 or 300 grain slugs but they do make them heavier. Either way it must have hit her in the head or face unless she was wearing a string bikini.
 

DKScott

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It seems to me, that the bullet would have to have been propelled farther than 2,640 yards upward along the given angle in order to cover that much horizontal distance. That's part I'm having trouble believing.

I'm being lazy here, but its been more years than I care to remember since I had to set up and solve an equation like that - but its a great one.
 

fudster

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Dumb! with a capitol 'D'

what was wrong with discharging the gun into a tree stump?

granted I'm no ML expert, but can black powder launch a 50cal round that far?
 

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http://powderburns.tripod.com/sharps.html#
 
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