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Decline in Hunters - Who will pay for Conservation?


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#1 chessie

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Posted 28 January 2019 - 06:47 AM

https://www.npr.org/...or-conservation

 

 



#2 fish dog

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Posted 28 January 2019 - 07:51 AM

(from the article:) 

 

Meanwhile other wildlife-centered activities, like birdwatching, hiking and photography, are rapidly growing, as American society and attitudes towards wildlife change.

 

Yeah, just try to get these deadbeats to pay anything to utilize our wildlife areas.  The DFW has a lands pass people are supposed to buy if they don't have a hunting or fishing license (which, if you have one IS your lands pass).  The lands pass is $25.92 annually or $4.58 a day.  This pass is only required for a small percentage of DFW's wildlife areas, San Jacinto being one of them.   I'm betting most of these folks don't have a hunting or fishing license, they're not the type if you know what I mean.

 

 https://nrm.dfg.ca.g...D=150190

 

In the past, before the online license system, visitors were supposed to stop and drop a couple bucks in the "Iron Ranger" that was just past the main entrance of San Jacinto next to their kiosk right next to the check station parking lot.  I spent many a non-hunting day out there and never...absolutely never...saw one vehicle full of bird watchers stop and drop a dime in the "Iron Ranger".  

 

In the meantime, while these nature lovers run the gate paying no fee, you and I have to pay, on top of our hunting license and stamps, $21.60 per day to hunt on the same property, WITHOUT EXCEPTION.  Not that I'm complaining about having to pay the fee, it's just that hunters are about the only ones required to pay even though other users are only required (and never seem to) pay only about 20% of that fee.  


Edited by fish dog, 28 January 2019 - 08:03 AM.

Every moving thing that liveth shall be meat for you. -- Gen.9:3

#3 John Segoria

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Posted 28 January 2019 - 08:20 AM

I guess we must have all the hunters in Cali. It takes 5 or more years to draw a rifle tag in a premium zone, they are always 30 or more guys on the sweatline at SJ, Wister still draws a good crowd, D16 draws plenty of interest and turkey hunters are everywhere. There are definitely less hunters and fisherman then in the past. The ones we have just tend to pile into the same historically busy areas. Unless this state in particular does more to recruit people into the outdoor activities like hunting and fishing then we will keep seeing a decline in our numbers. My own two boys grew up hunting but do far less of it now. Just different interests. There is a lot to do is this state. I surf, fish and hunt. So, I try to stay focused on hunting only during the season but passing on surfing and fishing is not easy.

John

#4 2rocky

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Posted 28 January 2019 - 08:54 AM

I'm really confused about this...Hunting license sales are down, yet public land is more crowded than ever, tag point creep is out of control, success rates for deer and elk are getting lower, and with social media hunting is more visible than ever.   Something isn't adding up.  At some point the Supply/Demand has to even out.  I think the price of hunting licenses and tags will keep going up and nonresidents will carry more of the burden.  

 

In 20 years I think poaching will become the new "Extreme Hunting" akin to moonshining and illegal cannabis production.  The State Police force will absorb the Game and Fish departments.  And hunting will be more tightly regulated and expensive than ever.  


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#5 DKScott

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Posted 28 January 2019 - 10:01 AM

Why are you confused?  There are fewer and fewer places to hunt every year, game populations appear to be in decline in many areas. Fewer hunters (but more active) and even fewer opportunities. The people who used to buy licenses for a casual once a season hunt with family are dropping away because the expense and limited opportunities. When I was a kid, we could shoot dove 15 minutes from my house - and I lived at the beach! The limit was 20 birds and a license in 1970 was $4.00. Now its $100:  $48 license plus $52 for bird stamps. There were also several ranges/clubs local to me where people could shoot year round, which helps drive interest. All the ones I shot at back then are closed now. Back then there was about zero interest in "tactical" weapons. I remember a single  AR15 (Armalite was based in Costa Mesa) that sat forever in the back corner of the long gun rack at Grant Boys. Nobody wanted it - everyone was drooling over the Midas Grade Superposeds Shooting sports were all hunting and target oriented back then.


"One final paragraph of advice: do not burn yourselves out. Be as I am - a reluctant enthusiast....a part-time crusader, a half-hearted fanatic. Save the other half of yourselves and your lives for pleasure and adventure. It is not enough to fight for the land; it is even more important to enjoy it. While you can. While it's still here. So get out there and hunt and fish and mess around with your friends, ramble out yonder and explore the forests, climb the mountains, bag the peaks, run the rivers, breathe deep of that yet sweet and lucid air, sit quietly for a while and contemplate the precious stillness, the lovely, mysterious, and awesome space. Enjoy yourselves, keep your brain in your head and your head firmly attached to the body, the body active and alive, and I promise you this much; I promise you this one sweet victory over our enemies, over those desk-bound men and women with their hearts in a safe deposit box, and their eyes hypnotized by desk calculators. I promise you this; You will outlive the bastards."
― Edward Abbey

#6 Hogskin

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Posted 28 January 2019 - 10:54 AM

Why are you confused?  There are fewer and fewer places to hunt every year, game populations appear to be in decline in many areas. Fewer hunters (but more active) and even fewer opportunities. The people who used to buy licenses for a casual once a season hunt with family are dropping away because the expense and limited opportunities. When I was a kid, we could shoot dove 15 minutes from my house - and I lived at the beach! The limit was 20 birds and a license in 1970 was $4.00. Now its $100:  $48 license plus $52 for bird stamps. There were also several ranges/clubs local to me where people could shoot year round, which helps drive interest. All the ones I shot at back then are closed now. Back then there was about zero interest in "tactical" weapons. I remember a single  AR15 (Armalite was based in Costa Mesa) that sat forever in the back corner of the long gun rack at Grant Boys. Nobody wanted it - everyone was drooling over the Midas Grade Superposeds Shooting sports were all hunting and target oriented back then.

 

All this plus now hunters are painted as inbred, beer swilling dipsh!ts that are one broken shoelace away from shooting up a crowded building.  In some circles it's professional suicide to admit that you enjoy hunting. 


Good lookin' people, they got no spine.

 

In 1999 I was duped by Y2K, I thought the world was coming to an end and I spent well over a decade ingesting copious amounts of ayahuasca daily to prepare for the inevitable apocalypse which, to my genuine surprise, never arrived.


#7 hatchet1

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Posted 28 January 2019 - 05:46 PM

Stay the course..tow the line..never waiver..Finish.

"REMINDING CALIFORNIANS THAT "MAN" IS THE ULTIMATE PREDATOR..NOT SILLY MOUNTAIN LIONS....."

                                            " in memory of cecil the lion & P-32..never forget"


#8 Bigolwiggler

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Posted 30 January 2019 - 09:14 AM

Total California Hunting license sales  in   1970   was 690,790  .    In 2018  it was  219,197  !   A huge drop over the decades considering that the population of California has skyrocketed since the 70's .

 

One big reason for this drop, I believe,  is because of the general anti-hunting sentiment taught in our public schools.  Our children are being indoctrinated.  

 

 I will make a prediction . I think that  we will see our largest single year drop in license sales  this year (2019)   .  Why ?  Mostly because of the  Non Lead ammo rule that takes full effect this year .  It will be the final straw for a lot of hunters.  

 

   Our state legislators (for the most part)  know exactly what they are doing . Their goal is to stop as much hunting as they can and its working.

 

BOW 



#9 TheGDog

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Posted 30 January 2019 - 04:53 PM

Well... is it any wonder? The consistently shrink and constrict down road access to places. They make it so you HAVE to do a ton of hoofin' it if ya wanna go any place good.  As a result... most people being lazy like they are... tend to congregate nearer to places with road access.  So then... any newcomers... don't know any better... go to someplace "Easy" don't see anything... see a bunch of other mofos walkin' around... say "this sucks" and give up and decide it's not for them.They're used to our cultures instant-gratification trend.

Pssh.. AND... AND... if and when they do stick with it and manage to score.... they proudly post about it on social media.. and proceed to receive a sh*t-ton of haterade from everybody and their Mama because we all know how much they loose heir dang minds whenever anything with fur on it gets killed.


Edited by TheGDog, 30 January 2019 - 04:56 PM.

"None of us was born knowing ANY of this. If someone else can do it, You can TOO!" - TheGDog.
"The wise man can learn from even the fool." - TheGDog

"Life is like a big sh*t sandwich, the more "bread" ya got, the less sh*t ya have to eat." 
 


#10 TheGDog

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Posted 30 January 2019 - 04:58 PM

 

One big reason for this drop, I believe,  is because of the general anti-hunting sentiment taught in our public schools.  Our children are being indoctrinated.  

 

Truer words were never spoken!  All those flower-child ex-hippies all went into education. And they've been sitting there spewing their biases into our childrens earholes now for 4+ decades.


Edited by TheGDog, 30 January 2019 - 04:58 PM.

"None of us was born knowing ANY of this. If someone else can do it, You can TOO!" - TheGDog.
"The wise man can learn from even the fool." - TheGDog

"Life is like a big sh*t sandwich, the more "bread" ya got, the less sh*t ya have to eat." 
 


#11 outdoorplay

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Posted 31 January 2019 - 10:49 AM

I for one will not give up on hunting, however, I have changed from hunting in Ca, to hunting out of state, just tied of my hunting dollars going to everything but what its supposed.  


it is my intent to do what is best for TOF, my bed side manners suck and for that I am sorry.
I am blunt and to the point and I do not have the ability to sugar coat it to save your fillings, So really if I tell you stop pissing on the carpet, just knock it off, man up and don't puff up carry on like soap opera. the rules here are really light so man up.

Some have asked way do you put up with all the crap some put me through. and this is it
I am tired of big business just taking form us outdoorsmen. most of the product is defective and does not work as stated. bottom line if there product sucks I want ever outdoorsmen to know about.

All I ask is support those that support you, this place is about real unpaid information, its real outdoorsmen not paid to say something outdoorsmen.........


#12 Zach

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Posted 31 January 2019 - 01:54 PM

(from the article:) 

 

Meanwhile other wildlife-centered activities, like birdwatching, hiking and photography, are rapidly growing, as American society and attitudes towards wildlife change.

 

Yeah, just try to get these deadbeats to pay anything to utilize our wildlife areas.  The DFW has a lands pass people are supposed to buy if they don't have a hunting or fishing license (which, if you have one IS your lands pass).  The lands pass is $25.92 annually or $4.58 a day.  This pass is only required for a small percentage of DFW's wildlife areas, San Jacinto being one of them.   I'm betting most of these folks don't have a hunting or fishing license, they're not the type if you know what I mean.

 

 https://nrm.dfg.ca.g...D=150190

 

In the past, before the online license system, visitors were supposed to stop and drop a couple bucks in the "Iron Ranger" that was just past the main entrance of San Jacinto next to their kiosk right next to the check station parking lot.  I spent many a non-hunting day out there and never...absolutely never...saw one vehicle full of bird watchers stop and drop a dime in the "Iron Ranger".  

 

In the meantime, while these nature lovers run the gate paying no fee, you and I have to pay, on top of our hunting license and stamps, $21.60 per day to hunt on the same property, WITHOUT EXCEPTION.  Not that I'm complaining about having to pay the fee, it's just that hunters are about the only ones required to pay even though other users are only required (and never seem to) pay only about 20% of that fee.  

I don't blame the "nature lovers", if I wasn't required to pay fees I wouldn't and I'd gladly keep my mouth closed.  Now if you want that to change, push for the fees to be levied on everyone on these multi use public lands.



#13 DKScott

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Posted 31 January 2019 - 02:48 PM

I believe they are levied on everyone and have been for many years. There is just no enforcement. Zero.


"One final paragraph of advice: do not burn yourselves out. Be as I am - a reluctant enthusiast....a part-time crusader, a half-hearted fanatic. Save the other half of yourselves and your lives for pleasure and adventure. It is not enough to fight for the land; it is even more important to enjoy it. While you can. While it's still here. So get out there and hunt and fish and mess around with your friends, ramble out yonder and explore the forests, climb the mountains, bag the peaks, run the rivers, breathe deep of that yet sweet and lucid air, sit quietly for a while and contemplate the precious stillness, the lovely, mysterious, and awesome space. Enjoy yourselves, keep your brain in your head and your head firmly attached to the body, the body active and alive, and I promise you this much; I promise you this one sweet victory over our enemies, over those desk-bound men and women with their hearts in a safe deposit box, and their eyes hypnotized by desk calculators. I promise you this; You will outlive the bastards."
― Edward Abbey

#14 Zach

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Posted 01 February 2019 - 08:02 AM

I believe they are levied on everyone and have been for many years. There is just no enforcement. Zero.

Taxes yes, but I don't believe anything else applies equally since we are talking the entirety of the US.  I know it's not the case in CO,WY,MT.



#15 DKScott

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Posted 01 February 2019 - 09:33 AM

I was talking about the entrance fees referred to by Fishdog. These are supposed to be charged to non-hunting visitors to WAs. We buy passes to access WAs to hunt and bad things happen if we don't. I can only speak about CA, but I suspect its the same nationwide.

 

Much harder to get away with evading taxes ;)


"One final paragraph of advice: do not burn yourselves out. Be as I am - a reluctant enthusiast....a part-time crusader, a half-hearted fanatic. Save the other half of yourselves and your lives for pleasure and adventure. It is not enough to fight for the land; it is even more important to enjoy it. While you can. While it's still here. So get out there and hunt and fish and mess around with your friends, ramble out yonder and explore the forests, climb the mountains, bag the peaks, run the rivers, breathe deep of that yet sweet and lucid air, sit quietly for a while and contemplate the precious stillness, the lovely, mysterious, and awesome space. Enjoy yourselves, keep your brain in your head and your head firmly attached to the body, the body active and alive, and I promise you this much; I promise you this one sweet victory over our enemies, over those desk-bound men and women with their hearts in a safe deposit box, and their eyes hypnotized by desk calculators. I promise you this; You will outlive the bastards."
― Edward Abbey




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