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Public Lands in DANGER AGAIN!!!!


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#1 Blacktail Slayer

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Posted 05 July 2018 - 08:51 AM

Our public lands are back in danger again. https://www.outdoorl...on-public-lands

 



#2 DKScott

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Posted 05 July 2018 - 09:49 AM

Worse, this guy is on Trump's short list for a Supreme Court nominee.  Ted Cruz is pushing him and, as a sitting Senator, Lee would likely get confirmed, as "courtesy" if nothing else.

 

Time to write Trump


"One final paragraph of advice: do not burn yourselves out. Be as I am - a reluctant enthusiast....a part-time crusader, a half-hearted fanatic. Save the other half of yourselves and your lives for pleasure and adventure. It is not enough to fight for the land; it is even more important to enjoy it. While you can. While it's still here. So get out there and hunt and fish and mess around with your friends, ramble out yonder and explore the forests, climb the mountains, bag the peaks, run the rivers, breathe deep of that yet sweet and lucid air, sit quietly for a while and contemplate the precious stillness, the lovely, mysterious, and awesome space. Enjoy yourselves, keep your brain in your head and your head firmly attached to the body, the body active and alive, and I promise you this much; I promise you this one sweet victory over our enemies, over those desk-bound men and women with their hearts in a safe deposit box, and their eyes hypnotized by desk calculators. I promise you this; You will outlive the bastards."
― Edward Abbey

#3 nicapopolis

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Posted 05 July 2018 - 01:50 PM

They will continue to be. It seems to be a topic where hunters will always be torn.

#4 Zach

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Posted 06 July 2018 - 05:23 AM

Not sure I'm ready to run around like chicken little yet, but watch cautiously.

 

Politics make strange bedfellows, we'll see who the "hunting community" sleeps with on this one.



#5 'Ike'

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Posted 06 July 2018 - 10:21 AM

Another the sky is falling thread...So has anyone actually lost out on hunting, fishing time?!?

In the last 40 or so years, I haven't missed a hunt, been told I can't hunt or fish for that matter...

Spend more time doing it and less time worrying about it...Good chance you'll be out of time, before it's all said and done...
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2017 Hoyt ProDefiant (Blk/Xtra) 'You mad bro'....

#6 fish dog

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Posted 07 July 2018 - 07:41 AM

I guess I'm just not up to speed on what the problem with this would be.  Is it not a good thing to transfer the land to state ownership?  I can see that in some states it might not be and others it might be better than the feds controlling it.  Isn't local control usually preferred instead of someone on the east coast making the decisions?  Like I said, I don't know.  Educate me.


Every moving thing that liveth shall be meat for you. -- Gen.9:3

#7 DKScott

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Posted 07 July 2018 - 08:15 AM

The concern is that states have a much higher propensity to monetize whatever lands they can though leases (drilling, solar, etc.) or outright sales to developers. Cronyism in DC is bad, but it is also bad in the states and there's 50 of them.  Look at CA budget and tax problems. Now consider granting them an enormous asset that, left alone becomes mostly another financial burden, but if ....

 

The other argument is that it is likely unconstitutional under the Property Clause of the Constitution. The Supremes have ruled on this before.

 

Then there is the fact that federal lands belong to all Americans. In the case of Utah, how do you compensate the 99% of Americans for granting ownership of about 6-8% of our public lands to the 1% of Americans who are Utah residents?

 

If the Feds don't always manage federal lands properly, the answer is to pressure them to make better decisions, not dispose of of the lands.


"One final paragraph of advice: do not burn yourselves out. Be as I am - a reluctant enthusiast....a part-time crusader, a half-hearted fanatic. Save the other half of yourselves and your lives for pleasure and adventure. It is not enough to fight for the land; it is even more important to enjoy it. While you can. While it's still here. So get out there and hunt and fish and mess around with your friends, ramble out yonder and explore the forests, climb the mountains, bag the peaks, run the rivers, breathe deep of that yet sweet and lucid air, sit quietly for a while and contemplate the precious stillness, the lovely, mysterious, and awesome space. Enjoy yourselves, keep your brain in your head and your head firmly attached to the body, the body active and alive, and I promise you this much; I promise you this one sweet victory over our enemies, over those desk-bound men and women with their hearts in a safe deposit box, and their eyes hypnotized by desk calculators. I promise you this; You will outlive the bastards."
― Edward Abbey

#8 Mud Pigeon

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Posted 07 July 2018 - 11:31 AM

I guess I'm just not up to speed on what the problem with this would be.  Is it not a good thing to transfer the land to state ownership?  I can see that in some states it might not be and others it might be better than the feds controlling it.  Isn't local control usually preferred instead of someone on the east coast making the decisions?  Like I said, I don't know.  Educate me.

For me to decide where I land on this all I have to do is imagine CA in control of the former BLM and NF lands within it's borders. I would expect a big decline in access for hunting in both as well as target shooting and off roading in BLM areas.



#9 fish dog

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Posted 07 July 2018 - 01:12 PM

 

I guess I'm just not up to speed on what the problem with this would be.  Is it not a good thing to transfer the land to state ownership?  I can see that in some states it might not be and others it might be better than the feds controlling it.  Isn't local control usually preferred instead of someone on the east coast making the decisions?  Like I said, I don't know.  Educate me.

For me to decide where I land on this all I have to do is imagine CA in control of the former BLM and NF lands within it's borders. I would expect a big decline in access for hunting in both as well as target shooting and off roading in BLM areas.

 

Ok, now THAT is a good point right there.


Every moving thing that liveth shall be meat for you. -- Gen.9:3

#10 Roux Meraux

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Posted 07 July 2018 - 02:01 PM

Well if he is picked and confirmed we will not have to worry about his proposed bill. But if it ever came down to a vote in the SCOTUS... we will know where he lands. Classic states rights vs federalism.



#11 DKScott

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Posted 07 July 2018 - 02:34 PM

Well if he is picked and confirmed we will not have to worry about his proposed bill. But if it ever came down to a vote in the SCOTUS... we will know where he lands. Classic states rights vs federalism.

 

Not a states rights issue.

 

US Constitution: Article 4, Section 3 Clause 2: " The Congress shall have Power to dispose of and make all needful Rules and Regulations respecting the Territory or other Property belonging to the United States; and nothing in this Constitution shall be so construed as to Prejudice any Claims of the United States, or of any particular State."

 

10th Amendment: "The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people."

 

Authority over federal land is clearly delegated to the United States. This doesn't mean Congress can't decide to dispose of it all, which would create a $h**t storm of lawsuits for decades and be a disaster for outdoors sports. Fortunately Lee doesn't seem to have made the cut.


"One final paragraph of advice: do not burn yourselves out. Be as I am - a reluctant enthusiast....a part-time crusader, a half-hearted fanatic. Save the other half of yourselves and your lives for pleasure and adventure. It is not enough to fight for the land; it is even more important to enjoy it. While you can. While it's still here. So get out there and hunt and fish and mess around with your friends, ramble out yonder and explore the forests, climb the mountains, bag the peaks, run the rivers, breathe deep of that yet sweet and lucid air, sit quietly for a while and contemplate the precious stillness, the lovely, mysterious, and awesome space. Enjoy yourselves, keep your brain in your head and your head firmly attached to the body, the body active and alive, and I promise you this much; I promise you this one sweet victory over our enemies, over those desk-bound men and women with their hearts in a safe deposit box, and their eyes hypnotized by desk calculators. I promise you this; You will outlive the bastards."
― Edward Abbey

#12 Zach

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Posted 07 July 2018 - 05:33 PM

 

Well if he is picked and confirmed we will not have to worry about his proposed bill. But if it ever came down to a vote in the SCOTUS... we will know where he lands. Classic states rights vs federalism.

 

Not a states rights issue.

 

US Constitution: Article 4, Section 3 Clause 2: " The Congress shall have Power to dispose of and make all needful Rules and Regulations respecting the Territory or other Property belonging to the United States; and nothing in this Constitution shall be so construed as to Prejudice any Claims of the United States, or of any particular State."

 

10th Amendment: "The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people."

 

Authority over federal land is clearly delegated to the United States. This doesn't mean Congress can't decide to dispose of it all, which would create a $h**t storm of lawsuits for decades and be a disaster for outdoors sports. Fortunately Lee doesn't seem to have made the cut.

 

Just my meager opinion, but I think that Roux is referring to a States over Federal control(much like Gen Lee).

 

Now, there are 2.27 Billion acres in the US, The Federal Government own 28.8%(roughly 640 million acres).  From 1781 -2015 the Feds transferred aprx 1.29 Billion acres. The total included transfers of 816 million acres to private ownership (individuals, railroads, etc.), 328 million acres to states generally, and 143 million acres in Alaska under state and Native selection laws. Most transfers to private ownership (97%) occurred before 1940; homestead entries, for example, peaked in 1910 at 18.3 million acres but dropped below 200,000 acres annually after 1935, until being fully eliminated in 1986.

 

The hunting community is going to have to bed down with someone to get numbers, my guess is the REI crowd.  It's always awkward the morning after a 1 nighter.

 

Sources:

https://fas.org/sgp/...misc/R42346.pdf

https://bigthink.com...lands-in-the-us

 

 

I am hopeful that Trump will pick Amy Barrett.  



#13 DKScott

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Posted 08 July 2018 - 08:12 AM

My point is that this particular issue is not about states rights because the authority (control) over federal lands was clearly spelled out in the body of the Constitution when it was written. Congress can decide to cede in some manner some or all lands to the states if it chooses to do so, but it is entirely within the scope of Congressional power.  The problem with someone like Lee on the bench is that this is a passion of his and something he has introduced legislation and advocated for.

 

As for Amy Barrett, she has a very limited record as a judge and has expressed a "flexible" approach to precedent. She has no known writings or verdicts regarding the 2nd Amendment. She is a wild card on the issue.


"One final paragraph of advice: do not burn yourselves out. Be as I am - a reluctant enthusiast....a part-time crusader, a half-hearted fanatic. Save the other half of yourselves and your lives for pleasure and adventure. It is not enough to fight for the land; it is even more important to enjoy it. While you can. While it's still here. So get out there and hunt and fish and mess around with your friends, ramble out yonder and explore the forests, climb the mountains, bag the peaks, run the rivers, breathe deep of that yet sweet and lucid air, sit quietly for a while and contemplate the precious stillness, the lovely, mysterious, and awesome space. Enjoy yourselves, keep your brain in your head and your head firmly attached to the body, the body active and alive, and I promise you this much; I promise you this one sweet victory over our enemies, over those desk-bound men and women with their hearts in a safe deposit box, and their eyes hypnotized by desk calculators. I promise you this; You will outlive the bastards."
― Edward Abbey

#14 Zach

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Posted 08 July 2018 - 10:43 AM

My point is that this particular issue is not about states rights because the authority (control) over federal lands was clearly spelled out in the body of the Constitution when it was written. Congress can decide to cede in some manner some or all lands to the states if it chooses to do so, but it is entirely within the scope of Congressional power.  The problem with someone like Lee on the bench is that this is a passion of his and something he has introduced legislation and advocated for.

 

As for Amy Barrett, she has a very limited record as a judge and has expressed a "flexible" approach to precedent. She has no known writings or verdicts regarding the 2nd Amendment. She is a wild card on the issue.

Gen Lee, as in Robert E.

 

I understood your point, which is why is said control vs rights.



#15 DKScott

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Posted 08 July 2018 - 11:03 AM

Mike Lee as in Senator Mike Lee of Utah. On Trumps list of 25 potential SCOTUS judges who was briefly on the short list for Kennedy's seat


"One final paragraph of advice: do not burn yourselves out. Be as I am - a reluctant enthusiast....a part-time crusader, a half-hearted fanatic. Save the other half of yourselves and your lives for pleasure and adventure. It is not enough to fight for the land; it is even more important to enjoy it. While you can. While it's still here. So get out there and hunt and fish and mess around with your friends, ramble out yonder and explore the forests, climb the mountains, bag the peaks, run the rivers, breathe deep of that yet sweet and lucid air, sit quietly for a while and contemplate the precious stillness, the lovely, mysterious, and awesome space. Enjoy yourselves, keep your brain in your head and your head firmly attached to the body, the body active and alive, and I promise you this much; I promise you this one sweet victory over our enemies, over those desk-bound men and women with their hearts in a safe deposit box, and their eyes hypnotized by desk calculators. I promise you this; You will outlive the bastards."
― Edward Abbey




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