Jump to content


Photo

My quest for "the one"


  • Please log in to reply
39 replies to this topic

#16 JNDEER

JNDEER

    "Custom"

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 3669 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Where I Am

Posted 09 May 2013 - 07:47 AM

Dude...you and sd related? Brutha from anutha mutha?ha! Good write up man....just cut to the chase and go with the el,s...there all you will ever need and more...I'm no pro staffer...just a hunter... sorta..

 

LOL....not that I am aware of...but we are both white :smiley-ugly-lol-bashing-sign:

 

actually...If i had to make a decision today based on what I have seen it would be the SLC's. I am hoping the Victory come in today and I can go give them a whirl for a bit.



#17 hatchet1

hatchet1

    100% AMERICAN & LION KILLER!!!!!

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 13326 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:THE BONEYARD...
  • Interests:Clowning fatboy & his offspring!!!

Posted 09 May 2013 - 07:58 AM

GOOD CHOICE EITHER WAY YOU REALLY CANT GO WRONG WITH SWAROVSKI,,I FOUGHT IT FOR YEARS..LEUPOLDS..PENTAX..STIENERS..HAVE THEM ALL..COLLECTED THEM THRU OUT THE YEARS IN MY QUEST FOR THE ONE..THE KIDS NOW USE THEM....NOTHING REALLY COMPARES TO MY SWAROS..THEY PAID FOR THEMSELVES IN 2 WEEKS,,,YOU'LL DIGG THEM MAN..SPECIALLY ONCE YOU HOOK THEM UP TO THE TRIPOD AND REALLY GET YOUR GLASS ON!!  


"REMINDING CALIFORNIANS THAT "MAN" IS THE ULTIMATE PREDATOR..NOT SILLY MOUNTAIN LIONS....."

                                            " in memory of cecil the lion & P-32..never forget"


#18 JNDEER

JNDEER

    "Custom"

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 3669 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Where I Am

Posted 09 May 2013 - 10:08 AM

LOL...yep...funny how when we all start out they say..."buy once cry once"....you think...naw........then after you add up everything you have spent on the other binos leading up to the "big purchase" your like...dang, in total I paid as much as I am paying now!

 

I am really looking forward to useing them in the field (which ever I end up with). Have a scouting trip planned at the end of the month.



#19 JNDEER

JNDEER

    "Custom"

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 3669 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Where I Am

Posted 09 May 2013 - 10:08 AM

I was asked this on another forum so I thought I would discuss it here as well:

 

Personally I am about 99% free hand glassing. I do about 50-60% putting the bino's on a stick or whatever I can find to stabilize the image and the other 40-50% of the time I am sitting with my elbows on my knees or standing if my butt starts to go asleep. I have been putting some thought into the FOV  and amount of CA seen on the outer edges. What I observed was that the Swaro’s showed no CA (to my eyes) throughout the whole FOV, there may have been very little CA but it would have been in the outer 1% of the FOV if any. Again I am using the term CA to explicitly mean who crisp the image is to my eyes through the binos (I believe that is its actual definition, but I did not look it up).

 

Multiple times glassing the button buck I could see on the bottom left edge of the “circle” a red winged black bird on some bushes. Even though it was in my peripheral vision, it was very clear and crisp on the edges. When I did this with the Euros I would say that the circle or FOV started showing CA on the outer ¼ of the cirlce. It was gradual and not just a wall going from very little CA to considerably more. I noticed this as I would move the outer edge of the FOV from side to side keeping my focus on the deer but also seeing the red winged black bird. When I say considerably more don’t assume I mean there was a lot. It was very apparent to my eyes because I was going back and forth from El’s, SLC and the Euros. If you only had the Euro’s and just used them I really don’t think it would be this apparent.

I would think that if you put them on tripods there would be differences, but nothing extreme from what I have seen thus far. The Vortex I feel would show a huge difference on a tripod compared to holding them in the hand just because of their weight. It was very hard to stabilize them in hand.

 

For ergonomics all of them have pluses and minuses. The Razors are very small in my hands and it is tougher to stabilize the image. The Euro’s are bigger and the wheel is stiffer. I actually, without realizing it, was using two fingers to move the wheel. It was not an issue, that is just what felt comfortable to my hands as I was glassing around with them. The Els are longer and touch more of my whole hand. The SLC are the in between the Razor and Euro’s. Shorter but also thicker and fit well in my hand.

 

I am more concerned with how well they perform for using them in the field. I honestly think that over time, with most any product really, you just adapt to them and they become a part of you. I notice all these small details now because I go back and forth between each a lot, but when I actually just hold one for a while (like a few minutes) it is like it is already an appendage.



#20 JNDEER

JNDEER

    "Custom"

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 3669 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Where I Am

Posted 16 May 2013 - 09:55 AM

The Victory HT had finally arrived. I went out immediately to try them out and compare them to the others. I had read on a birding forum comments from someone at Zeiss that these were “made with the hunter in mind” and so this had me excited to put them in use. It was windy while glassing so seeing how well the binos held in the hand and how well the image stabilized would be an easy test. At first I pulled out the Victory’s and started to glass (this was after setting the diopter at home). I started to pan around the hill and immediately as the wind was blowing hard down the hill hitting me square in the face I could tell the image was very bouncy. I figured it was just the wind and quickly changed to the EL’s to check if it was the wind. Nope, the EL’s held just fine. I went back to the Victory’s and when I held them back in my hand I could feel that they are very weight forward heavy. The barrels are very large and require my whole hand and palm to hold them. Because they are so heavy near the eyes and so light at the ends it makes for a bino that is very hard to hold steady if you glass while standing. I then tried leaning on the vehicle with my elbows resting on the hood. This helped a lot and I could then compare the clarity of them to the EL’s. So far it appears that they are very clear and crisp just like the EL’s and even though I said I would not discount a bino because of the ergonomics of it, I have to say that I have changed my mind. Everytime I went back to the HT’s they just felt bulky, awkward, and very unbalanced in my hands. It would take some exceptional glass, something far better than what I see in the Swaro’s, for me to have to live with these characteristic flaws. These flaws may not be seen by others, but it was immediately felt by my when compared any of the other binoculars to the HT’s and it was not something I liked. Because of this I did not spend a lot of time looking for details of how well the glass actually is, but from what I saw glassing up until about 15 minutes of last light they were right up with the EL’s and would probably take some detailed time to see any major differences between the two.

 

I have noticed that the EL, HT and Euro’s all have a very similar appearance through the glass compared to the Razors and SLC. It is tough to describe the differences between them, but for the EL, HT and Euros they have a darker shade or tent throughout the whole site picture. This is not to say they don’t gather enough light, but just that the image is toned down some compared to the Razor and SLC. The Razors are almost over bright and can produce a glare, not on the glass itself, but the objects you look at. The SLC are very bright as well, but I have never seen the type of glare that I sometimes get while using the Razors.

 

The night I used the HT’s for the first time I also looked more closely at the razors and euro’s. Even with the wind the razors seemed to hold better than they did the previous outings. This also could be because of the diopter adjustment I did, again. As soon as the sun set I glassed the top of the eastern facing hill and the Razors produced halo’s at the bottom of the glass and it prevented me from seeing. I believe this was because I wear glasses. When I pulled them down and glassed at the bottom of the mountain it was fine. The euro’s did not produce this glare I was getting while looking at the top of the mountain. At last light I was glassing under an oak about a mile away on a west facing slope. Under the oak there are two grey colored branches back and under the canopy of the tree. The razors showed these branches clearer, but the image was tough to stabilize even having my elbows resting on the hood of the vehicle. The Euro’s were not quite as crisp, but I could clearly see the two branches and even though the edges were not as well defined as what I was seeing with the razors, the image was not bouncy and it allowed me to see the branches and under the tree a little better.



#21 JNDEER

JNDEER

    "Custom"

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 3669 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Where I Am

Posted 18 May 2013 - 10:03 PM

I had a few hours tonight to go back out and look through the binos at the same location I had been going to. Tonight there was no breeze to start and clear blue bird skies. I first put the binos that I am leaning towards on the crooked horn to get a real life feeling of them on while glassing. With no breeze I found the Zeiss more user friendly. In fact for a while I almost was doubting my choice of the pair I had strapped on. While glassing through the Zeiss I reminds me of looking through a super clear sliding glass door. Like you don’t know the glass is there, it is a smooth appearance for the eyes and very easy for glassing. This revelations were determined glassing a bachelor group of some of CA finest “forked horn nation” specimens. 2 spikes, 2 forky’s and one with balls on the end. All were about 250 yards from me in the yellow grass on the east facing slope.

 

Because my muscles were very fatigued from working today after a while it became more difficult to stabilize the binos. Some kids had come by and spooked the deer I was looking at and one of the bigger forky’s decided he needed to run and run and run. He finally starting to walk along the hill and was about 1200 yards away or so. I quickly went back and forth holding the HT and SLC. The HT I could tell he had antlers and could see that the tops looked “bigger” but that was about it. It was clear and crisp, I just could not stabilize the image and it bounced around. When I went to the SLC’s I could make out the tops had small forks while just leaning against my jeep. When I put the SLC on my door to get them steady it was very apparent he was a forky. When I tried to put the HT on the jeep door they really started to bounce around. Trying to stabilize the image of the antlers was too difficult and I could not make out the forks. These were small forks as he is still growing, probably something like 2” or so. If the Zeiss were on a tripod a lot more and less just in the hands glassing, the ease looking through them on the eyes I think would be very nice. Edge to edge clarity and crispness between the EL, SLC and HT is almost too difficult to distinguish. The EL/HT show more yellow then the others and I will talk about that some more in a bit. This is really only noticeable if you go back and forth quickly between the binos. If not, your eyes would have to be sensitive to it. The SLC’s continue to impress me with their ability to be not only bright but show the images very clear and crsip. The HT and EL have the larger FOV and show images to be bigger the the SLC’s. Tonight I was using the SLC and glassing the bedded buck at 200 some yards and at 838 (legal last light where I was at, Sunset was at 810) looking on the east facing slope from the valley floor up I could still see the small forks on his head while glassing free hand.

 

Some side information. One night last week when I was heading out to go try the Zeiss again I found that my crankshaft pulley was broken on my jeep and needed to be replaced. At first I did not know it was it and the knocking noise had me thinking I could have thrown a rod. When this happened some of my thoughts were “well there goes my high end bino’s, I got to settle for something less.” The Jeep is now fixed and running smooth, but I figured I would talk about the cheaper binos some more as if I would have had to potentially buy them. Yes, this means that based on what I have seen they are not optically as good as the more expensive binos when looking through them with my eyes.

 

Euro vs. Razor. Like I said before the Razors are very very bright. Again tonight glassing up the hill I got that bad glare. I tried moving it around my eyes some, but no dice. I then took off my glasses and pulled out the cups. No glare! So, if you wear glasses be warned that glassing towards the sun or a east facing ridge after sunset may cause glassing issues. After some time the razors, despite being so light, can be adaptable to the hands for glassing. The last 15-20 minutes of light the FOV is still very bright, but I found it harder to stabilize the image. If you could (ie on a tripod) then they would probably be ok for all intents and purposes. They have the brightness of the SLC (not necessarily the detailed clarity, just specifically how bright the images appear) but also show some aspects of the EL/HT. I was glassing a south facing hill with three drainages running east to west. The EL/HT/Razors did not show the depth and curves of the top of the nulls going up and over each little drainage. This hill was nothing but yellow grass. The yellow really stood out on all three binos. Not in a bad way, just very noticeable going back and forth compared to the others. The Euros and SLC showed the rolling nulls and you could see the depth of field as the distance changed from the first null to the top of the hill. They also did not show the yellow as much and I could see that there were grey and tan colored areas on the hill. The Euros are not as bright (again this is just saying the FOV doesn’t appear as bright, but images are very similar) as the razors, but from what I could tell they hold a crisp and clear image a little further to the edges then the Razors. I mostly glass by looking in the general middle of the FOV, so clarity to the edges is not a huge issue, but from what I have seen these past nights is that it makes glassing easier on the eyes if you maximize the clarity and crispness in the whole FOV. This does not mean that cheap binos won’t work for glassing because I have killed animals using cheaper binos and have glassed for hours with no issues. Trying to explain what I mean by “easier” is hard and it may have to be something you need to experience for yourself. The Euros fell way better in my hands and no matter if I am hand holding them or leaning on the hood of the jeep the image stabilizes very nicely. When glassing to the top of the hill as the sun is setting I get no glare with my glasses. They were about the same in clarity for the last 15 or so minutes of light. For both binos when I say they were the same I was looking at the buck with the balls on the top of his antlers bedded in the yellow grass 209 yards away. Both binos could see the antlers and could see there was a “bump” on the tops of the antler, but if there was a small fork on one side or not I think it would have been difficult to tell based on what I was seeing tonight.

 

I have not talked a lot about the Primes (my original pair). Despite me going to be putting these up for sale here and other sites I will not sugar coat my findings. These are not high end glass, period. After I purchased them I found out they were better then the Diamondbacks and original Razors as that is what I was comparing them to. It is very noticeable while comparing them to the Swaro’s that they lack qualities and tonight I tried to see what exactly that was. I think what I am noticing is that they lack a little of all the qualities, LOL. They are not as bright as any of the other pairs. The biggest thing I notice is that they do not hold crisp clear images as far as the Razors or Euros, this is the big difference. The middle of the FOV is fine (not as crisp as the Razor or Euros, but close), but from the middle area out it is not crisp or clear compared to the others. It starts loosing detail in the middle of the FOV earlier then the others. Probably right after the sun sets (again glassing toward the east slope from the bottom, so it is actually a little darker). But you can still see the “bucks“. Around 20 or so minutes of last light is when the spike bucks appeared to just have “things” growing out of their heads and not actual spikes. I think this may be something to do with my eyes/glasses and diopter as when my brother was comparing them to the Razor/SLC the other night he was not seeing everything as unclear as I was. Not to say they were as good as the SLC or Razors, just maybe not as unclear as what I am describing.

 

I will be returning them next week. If anyone has anything they would like me to look at before then, just let me know.



#22 SCREWLOOSE

SCREWLOOSE

    Guide

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 1845 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:RIO LINDA CA.

Posted 18 May 2013 - 10:32 PM

Great write up so far Josh.

Maybe once you make your selection you can post the best to worst and prices just for comparison for those of us that are still using mid-grade glass.

What day are you going back to Reno ?
Fins for breakfast, Feathers for lunch and Fur for dinner. A well balanced diet...

You are not raising a BOY, you are raising a MAN. DO NOT let society tell you otherwise!!!

A co-worked asked why I wanted to kill a deer. I said "because they won't stay on the BBQ if I don't kill them first"

Patience is the Virtue that carry's a lot of wait.

PROUDLY SENT TO THE BANNED CAMP BY THE Captain Kangaroo!

#23 upper

upper

    "Custom"

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 2629 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:central CA.

Posted 19 May 2013 - 04:22 AM

 

Edited by upper, 19 May 2013 - 04:24 AM.


#24 Arrowslinger

Arrowslinger

    Animal lover!

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 4523 posts
  • Gender:Not Telling

Posted 19 May 2013 - 05:00 AM

Great write up so far Josh.

Maybe once you make your selection you can post the best to worst and prices just for comparison for those of us that are still using mid-grade glass.

What day are you going back to Reno ?

 

piss off.  go suck start a shotgun.  Nobody cares what you think old man.

 

Very classy Clyde.  Why not take your attitude and posts somewhere else -sure there's lots of little kids and old folks that will think your humor is funny.


Big game hunter!


#25 DKScott

DKScott

    EWB

  • Moderator
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 14992 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Safely behind the Orange Curtain

Posted 19 May 2013 - 06:16 AM

OK, everyone rein in the attitude.

 

Clyde, you thrive on being a lighting rod, but it is starting to cut into my time, so this is where it stops.

 

To everyone else - Clyde has taken some real cheap shots from a few of you in the peanut gallery (and you know who are) and if all of you don't knock it off, vacation season will be starting a little early.

 

If you don't like someone or don't have anything constructive or nice to say, stay out of the topic.


"One final paragraph of advice: do not burn yourselves out. Be as I am - a reluctant enthusiast....a part-time crusader, a half-hearted fanatic. Save the other half of yourselves and your lives for pleasure and adventure. It is not enough to fight for the land; it is even more important to enjoy it. While you can. While it's still here. So get out there and hunt and fish and mess around with your friends, ramble out yonder and explore the forests, climb the mountains, bag the peaks, run the rivers, breathe deep of that yet sweet and lucid air, sit quietly for a while and contemplate the precious stillness, the lovely, mysterious, and awesome space. Enjoy yourselves, keep your brain in your head and your head firmly attached to the body, the body active and alive, and I promise you this much; I promise you this one sweet victory over our enemies, over those desk-bound men and women with their hearts in a safe deposit box, and their eyes hypnotized by desk calculators. I promise you this; You will outlive the bastards."
― Edward Abbey

#26 hatchet1

hatchet1

    100% AMERICAN & LION KILLER!!!!!

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 13326 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:THE BONEYARD...
  • Interests:Clowning fatboy & his offspring!!!

Posted 19 May 2013 - 07:36 AM

I just had to delete the profanity and clydes rant on children being assaulted...scott...that's way out of line..surely this giant fool is not going recieve a hall pass to continue behind the golden curtain?

"REMINDING CALIFORNIANS THAT "MAN" IS THE ULTIMATE PREDATOR..NOT SILLY MOUNTAIN LIONS....."

                                            " in memory of cecil the lion & P-32..never forget"


#27 JNDEER

JNDEER

    "Custom"

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 3669 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Where I Am

Posted 19 May 2013 - 07:50 AM

<blockquote class='ipsBlockquote'data-author="SCREWLOOSE" data-cid="420024" data-time="1368945159"><p>
Great write up so far Josh. <br />
<br />
Maybe once you make your selection you can post the best to worst and prices just for comparison for those of us that are still using mid-grade glass. <br />
<br />
What day are you going back to Reno ?</p></blockquote>

Thanks.

It is really tough to say this is better then that. Base on what I have seen I prefer the Euros over the Razors, but James prefers the Razors.

I can say that if you wanted to upgrade the binos in the 400-700 range are similar, the $1k are similar and those in the $2k are similar.... Speaking very general, but this is what I have seen owning or having some I each class.
Pick a price range you can afford and go check some out. You can passively eliminate some in store or outside the store. Comparing them at the store the Euros over impressed me and at that time telling a big difference was not possible. Lookin around the neighborhoods produced a different winner. The EL seemed to be the top. When I took them out during daytime and last light in an environment I hunt in was only when I could actually see what they really showed to my eyes and again the top bino was different.

I am plannin on shipping them back.

Edited by JNDEER, 19 May 2013 - 07:53 AM.


#28 DKScott

DKScott

    EWB

  • Moderator
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 14992 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Safely behind the Orange Curtain

Posted 19 May 2013 - 07:52 AM

I just had to delete the profanity and clydes rant on children being assaulted...scott...that's way out of line..surely this giant fool is not going recieve a hall pass to continue behind the golden curtain?

 

What can you delete besides your own comments?  If you are referring to a post I haven't seen, please PM me the link


"One final paragraph of advice: do not burn yourselves out. Be as I am - a reluctant enthusiast....a part-time crusader, a half-hearted fanatic. Save the other half of yourselves and your lives for pleasure and adventure. It is not enough to fight for the land; it is even more important to enjoy it. While you can. While it's still here. So get out there and hunt and fish and mess around with your friends, ramble out yonder and explore the forests, climb the mountains, bag the peaks, run the rivers, breathe deep of that yet sweet and lucid air, sit quietly for a while and contemplate the precious stillness, the lovely, mysterious, and awesome space. Enjoy yourselves, keep your brain in your head and your head firmly attached to the body, the body active and alive, and I promise you this much; I promise you this one sweet victory over our enemies, over those desk-bound men and women with their hearts in a safe deposit box, and their eyes hypnotized by desk calculators. I promise you this; You will outlive the bastards."
― Edward Abbey

#29 upper

upper

    "Custom"

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 2629 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:central CA.

Posted 19 May 2013 - 08:02 AM

This was a great thread till Clyde highjacked it.If the owner of this site(And I know who you are)would go back and re-read posts related to Clyde,he or she would see how embarrasingly odd that that certain person is.

 

  P.S. I don't hijack,I turn.


Edited by upper, 19 May 2013 - 08:03 AM.


#30 hatchet1

hatchet1

    100% AMERICAN & LION KILLER!!!!!

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 13326 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:THE BONEYARD...
  • Interests:Clowning fatboy & his offspring!!!

Posted 19 May 2013 - 08:08 AM

Scott..I'm not going to get into this kinda crap with you again...that fatass is way outta line..please don't compare my commnts to clydes "f" word babbling....and telling screwloose that his wife and daughter should be assaulted{this is the g version}and no I did not save the link to pm you...the guys a mess...back on topic...josh..the el,s are are the way to go man..pay now..or pay later! Good choice.

"REMINDING CALIFORNIANS THAT "MAN" IS THE ULTIMATE PREDATOR..NOT SILLY MOUNTAIN LIONS....."

                                            " in memory of cecil the lion & P-32..never forget"





0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users