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#1 jevc

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Posted 23 May 2010 - 09:27 AM

I know the 357 mag is not the best gun for self defense against black bears. It is the largest handgun I own. Any advise on the best factory round if I have to use it?

#2 lurediver

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Posted 23 May 2010 - 09:34 AM

Id be more worried about the cats.
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#3 upper

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Posted 23 May 2010 - 09:44 AM

I prefer 8 quick ones out of my 45 acp.The number one hand-gun found next to bear killed humans is a 44 Magnum.What does that tell you? Upper

#4 DKScott

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Posted 23 May 2010 - 09:51 AM

I have run across a lot of CA bears - several times within a few feet, and in my experience they will leave you alone unless you give the a reason not to. One reason is trying to reclaim your food after they have claimed it. Another would be not getting the hell out their way when they go after that candy bar you kept in your tent - see a pattern here?

I agree with LD, MLs worry me more than bears. 158 gr JSP or JHPs for them. Or these will handle bears too: http://www.buffalobo...o...etail&p=100 (warning: they hurt on both ends in my S&W 19)

Interesting stat upper. Where did you hear it? Also, could it be that since the .44 mag is virtually always the weapon carried in bear country, that even if true, there is nothing in that statement that validates the idea that other handguns are better. I have several of each, and personally, I don't think the .45 has the power or penetration of even the .357 let alone the .44. How many back country rangers do you see with semi-autos? Semis are combat weapons for two legged threats - and humans go down easy.
"One final paragraph of advice: do not burn yourselves out. Be as I am - a reluctant enthusiast....a part-time crusader, a half-hearted fanatic. Save the other half of yourselves and your lives for pleasure and adventure. It is not enough to fight for the land; it is even more important to enjoy it. While you can. While it's still here. So get out there and hunt and fish and mess around with your friends, ramble out yonder and explore the forests, climb the mountains, bag the peaks, run the rivers, breathe deep of that yet sweet and lucid air, sit quietly for a while and contemplate the precious stillness, the lovely, mysterious, and awesome space. Enjoy yourselves, keep your brain in your head and your head firmly attached to the body, the body active and alive, and I promise you this much; I promise you this one sweet victory over our enemies, over those desk-bound men and women with their hearts in a safe deposit box, and their eyes hypnotized by desk calculators. I promise you this; You will outlive the bastards."
― Edward Abbey

#5 jevc

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Posted 23 May 2010 - 10:22 AM

QUOTE (DKScott @ May 23 2010, 10:51 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I run across a lot of bears - several times within a few feet, and in my experience they will leave you alone unless you give the a reason not to. One reason is trying to reclaim your food after they have claimed it. Another would be not getting the hell out their way when they go after that candy bar you kept in your tent - see a pattern here?

I agree with LD, MLs worry me more than bears. 158 gr JSP or JHPs for them. Or these will handle bears too: http://www.buffalobo...o...etail&p=100 (warning: they hurt on both ends in my S&W 19)



I agree mountain lions are much more of a threat. I have carried my 357 while bow hunting since an incident a few years agao when I was tracked for about a mile in the dark while walking back from a deer stand. I was walking back after dark to the truck and saw lion tracks on top of the boot tracks I had left on the way in. He had tracked me into my stand. and a short time later I could here the lion walking along side me and He followed me all the way to the road. All I had for defense was a cedar arrow with a broadhead glued on the end. I felt just a little vulnerable.
the place we are going this summer is having some bear issues and one was killed last year by a camper while it was mauling his father in his sleeping bag. and a couple years before that another camper got bit in the head as he slept. I thought I better carry the best loads I can find. thanks to the info.

#6 DKScott

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Posted 23 May 2010 - 10:37 AM

I had a similar experience being shadowed by an ML hunting quail in the CNF a few years ago - in an area where there have been attacks, some fatal. It does indeed give you a case of the heebee jeebees. I carry my .357 back there now.

The forest service and DFG are pretty aggressive in finding and putting down problem bears. I witnessed an incident in the back country, a couple days from the trailhead, where a bear slashed open a tent with a girl in it (apparently she had something inside - toothpaste was the claim). She wasn't hurt. We were on our way out and reported it when we hit the trailhead about two days later. The ranger said they already had the report, found and put the bear down. They don't relocate them anymore. Bear was a monster - a beautiful cinnamon phase boar I would estimate easily topped 500 pounds. I saw him coming a good mile away and snapped pics the whole time, the closest were maybe 15' from me. They are packed away somewhere. I'll try to find them.
"One final paragraph of advice: do not burn yourselves out. Be as I am - a reluctant enthusiast....a part-time crusader, a half-hearted fanatic. Save the other half of yourselves and your lives for pleasure and adventure. It is not enough to fight for the land; it is even more important to enjoy it. While you can. While it's still here. So get out there and hunt and fish and mess around with your friends, ramble out yonder and explore the forests, climb the mountains, bag the peaks, run the rivers, breathe deep of that yet sweet and lucid air, sit quietly for a while and contemplate the precious stillness, the lovely, mysterious, and awesome space. Enjoy yourselves, keep your brain in your head and your head firmly attached to the body, the body active and alive, and I promise you this much; I promise you this one sweet victory over our enemies, over those desk-bound men and women with their hearts in a safe deposit box, and their eyes hypnotized by desk calculators. I promise you this; You will outlive the bastards."
― Edward Abbey

#7 Bishop

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Posted 23 May 2010 - 10:59 AM

Most rounds for .40, .45, .357 are designed for rapid expansion on thin skinned, out of shape people. Black bears aren't hard to kill like grizzlies, but they're harder to kill then people.
In a .357 you should avoid a rapid expanding hollow point and get a heavier soft point or hard cast around 180 grains if you can find them. 158 grains would be minimum. You've got to penetrate fur, thick skin, layers of fat, heavy muscles, and big bones to get to the vitals.

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#8 DeltaDan

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Posted 23 May 2010 - 01:00 PM

QUOTE (lurediver @ May 23 2010, 10:34 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Id be more worried about the cats.



NO JOKE !!


The wife and boys encountered one on easter break that jumped out of a tree 15-20 yards from them on a trail they hiked up into Black Diamond mines on the back side.


They left Cobalt home that morning .... prolly could of been more interesting if he was with them that day - but she said the next time she goes there - she will have the .380 Colt in a hip holster.

Got some great pic's of that day while I was at work. Amazing how beautiful it is in Spring here just 15 miles out.... and off the Delta for a change.
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#9 ofdscooby

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Posted 23 May 2010 - 02:30 PM

QUOTE (jevc @ May 23 2010, 10:27 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I know the 357 mag is not the best gun for self defense against black bears. It is the largest handgun I own. Any advise on the best factory round if I have to use it?


Why do you ask Hommie? Do you have somthin' up your sleve?

#10 jevc

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Posted 23 May 2010 - 05:18 PM

QUOTE (ofdscooby @ May 23 2010, 03:30 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
QUOTE (jevc @ May 23 2010, 10:27 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I know the 357 mag is not the best gun for self defense against black bears. It is the largest handgun I own. Any advise on the best factory round if I have to use it?


Why do you ask Hommie? Do you have somthin' up your sleve?


No, nothing up the sleve. just trying to protect the family. we are meeting some friends up on the green river in for a 8 day float. there are gonna be lots of kids. some very young. that means gum, candy, spillage etc... you know what I mean! not to mention small prey. With the continued drought in the rockies the bears have moved down to the river to find better pickings. I have been rafting there for since 1980. It was just a few years ago that I saw a bear sign there. In the past couple of years there have been a couple issues with attacks and problem bears. not a huge worry. But I like to be properly armed. If I cant take one down with the 357 my bother will be there with "the judge" for backup.

#11 DKScott

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Posted 23 May 2010 - 05:21 PM

With all those kids running around, the guns are potentially the bigger danger. Be careful and keep them well secured at all times.
"One final paragraph of advice: do not burn yourselves out. Be as I am - a reluctant enthusiast....a part-time crusader, a half-hearted fanatic. Save the other half of yourselves and your lives for pleasure and adventure. It is not enough to fight for the land; it is even more important to enjoy it. While you can. While it's still here. So get out there and hunt and fish and mess around with your friends, ramble out yonder and explore the forests, climb the mountains, bag the peaks, run the rivers, breathe deep of that yet sweet and lucid air, sit quietly for a while and contemplate the precious stillness, the lovely, mysterious, and awesome space. Enjoy yourselves, keep your brain in your head and your head firmly attached to the body, the body active and alive, and I promise you this much; I promise you this one sweet victory over our enemies, over those desk-bound men and women with their hearts in a safe deposit box, and their eyes hypnotized by desk calculators. I promise you this; You will outlive the bastards."
― Edward Abbey

#12 upper

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Posted 23 May 2010 - 06:41 PM

Gee JVEC,sounds like a fun place for the whole family,got room for my kids?????????????????Upper

#13 tmoniz

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Posted 23 May 2010 - 07:02 PM

I don't worry about ML's and Black Bears. I don't even think about them. When I lived in Alaska the Grizz probably avoided us more than we worried about them.
A good Pepper Spray that shoots about 30 Feet should be fine.
But as DK said. Don't provide any Bear with a quick meal. Whether in a tent, bag, or in your car.
I just got back from Mammoth a little while ago. The Bears are starting to roam the Condos.
When the wife and I came in for the night we pulled everything and I mean everything out of the car for the night.

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#14 DKScott

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Posted 23 May 2010 - 07:54 PM

I cant tell you how many fine looking rugs .. er, I mean bears I have seen behind Mammoth. Anybody who puts in for X6 (I think) should definitely have a bear tag on them.
"One final paragraph of advice: do not burn yourselves out. Be as I am - a reluctant enthusiast....a part-time crusader, a half-hearted fanatic. Save the other half of yourselves and your lives for pleasure and adventure. It is not enough to fight for the land; it is even more important to enjoy it. While you can. While it's still here. So get out there and hunt and fish and mess around with your friends, ramble out yonder and explore the forests, climb the mountains, bag the peaks, run the rivers, breathe deep of that yet sweet and lucid air, sit quietly for a while and contemplate the precious stillness, the lovely, mysterious, and awesome space. Enjoy yourselves, keep your brain in your head and your head firmly attached to the body, the body active and alive, and I promise you this much; I promise you this one sweet victory over our enemies, over those desk-bound men and women with their hearts in a safe deposit box, and their eyes hypnotized by desk calculators. I promise you this; You will outlive the bastards."
― Edward Abbey

#15 jevc

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Posted 24 May 2010 - 07:44 AM

Thanks for the info on the ammo. I will get some of those 180 grain bullets. Of course I don't plan on using them but will have it for backup. And yes the gun is stored in a safe spot at all times.

Also, when we pull into camp if there is bear sign we simply continue on down the river and find another place. Wish I could bring a dog. that is the best bear defense. but no dogs are allowed there that time of year.




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