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#91 HereDuckyDucky

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Posted 01 February 2010 - 10:26 PM

QUOTE (Lujack @ Feb 1 2010, 06:24 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I think there are two different issues comming into play here. The first one is a guy who sets up his blind and decoys for a one, two, or three day hunt on public land, and then takes his crap out when he is done. The second is a guy who builds a permanant blind in a public area and expects that no one else will hunt it. In the second scenario, I too can call BS on him trying to reserve a section of public land to call his own for a season. The first scenario, however, is a classic "first come first served" situation. I for the life of me can't figure out why a hunter could possibly not respect this. If we are to use the "public land" letter of the law, a guy could set up a blind ten feet from another guy's blind and be perfectly legal. Do we really need more laws to dictate courtesy and commen sense? The more I think about this topic the more I can't believe the arguments against the original post. Un-fricken'-believable. It takes all kinds I guess.


I have no problem with the first guy so long as he stays with his stuff the entire time (at least within close proximity). My problem would be if he decided to leave his deeks out to reserve the spot, left after the hunt to go wherever it is he's going, and expects his spot the following morning....and so on. I don't think we, as public hunters, have the right to lay claim to public ground like that. If we're there, fine; but don't think that you can claim public ground for extended periods of absence just because you leave your stuff there.

As for erecting a blind 10 feet away, there are statutes that address that. Yes, you could very likely press charges.

RW
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#92 HereDuckyDucky

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Posted 01 February 2010 - 10:28 PM

QUOTE (Crapshoot @ Feb 1 2010, 07:30 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
To me the issue is if one believes putting decoys out the day / night before is a Proper / Ethical / Legal way to claim a hunting spot. That is where the debate gets started. I would imagine there must be something in the hunting regulations that address this. Is it legal to leave decoys out overnight? I could not find anything on the DFG page


It's illegal in CA Wildlife Areas, but I can't find anything addressing it on other non-public grounds.

RW
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#93 HereDuckyDucky

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Posted 01 February 2010 - 10:31 PM

QUOTE (Skeet @ Feb 1 2010, 07:57 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
The problem I have is hunting over someones elses gear that they took the time to set up (not talking about the few who leave there decs out all season thats a whole diferent subject) There are miles of shore line and atleast 3 other blinds these guys walked past to hunt someone elses spread. I guess its just who you are as a person I for one wouldnt think of it but I guess a few were raised different.

Thanks for keeping it all civil (for the most part) I just needed to vent and it didnt even happen to me personally


Skeet, I have the same issue. Like I said numerous times, those guys were pricks in how they responded to the situation. If it were me, I probably would have hunted somewhere else. If I was hell-bound on hunting there, I would have collected the decoys and stashed them respectfully for the owner.

Don't read my posts as supporting the actions of the other guys. My beef is with the concept of reserving public ground; that's it.

Thanks for being a good sport.

RW
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#94 chuam

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Posted 01 February 2010 - 10:42 PM

I think we're all pretty much on the same page that the guys who went into a blind with dekes out and expected them to leave them there so they could hunt over them are idiots.


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#95 HereDuckyDucky

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Posted 01 February 2010 - 10:45 PM

QUOTE (Crimson Crusher @ Feb 1 2010, 10:15 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
The walks a good 700 to 800 yards through mud Your frickin spent when you get there, that made the decision of leaving the deeks out a no brainer. I figured I'll even leave flippy, someone sees that they will know I'm coming back for sure.


This is the attitude I'm opposed to. It's easier to leave them out. I won't have to do the work to pick them up. I won't have to do the work to bring them back out. I won't have to compete for the blind in the morning

Laziness and arrogance (I wish I had better, less-offensive words, sorry Crims).

QUOTE (Crimson Crusher @ Feb 1 2010, 10:15 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I'm never a late starter but that morning I showed up about 45 min before shoot time. I make the trudge and as I can start to see the blind I see some one about 50 yards from it. I think to myself great go figure smiley-shakehead-blue.gif They wernt moving, I don't get into pissing matches with guns in peoples hands. Not a real fricking smart Idea IMO I will say this when I asked for my decoy bag that was in the blind one of em had the balls to ask, your not going to take your deeks are you? What a piece of work.


I left and hunted somewhere else got a full strap. 2.gif
Now I could have got there about a half hr earlier and avoided this . Point taken.


As I said before, these guys were pretty douchey. Nice job on adjusting though, and well played on your part...

QUOTE (Crimson Crusher @ Feb 1 2010, 10:15 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
The deeks were not left there to corner it for 5 or 6 days.
I see most people here would not set up in someone else's blind if they left there sheet out Its called common courtesy
Are some people that hard up for a spot that they say f u to another hunter. You would be surprised how many people that wont do the work for them selves but want to benefit from others. Yes it's public and any body can hunt it Funny how no one wanted to hunt there before till someone put a blind there The way I see it if you need to get there first I was there a day ahead of them. laugh.gif W


Whether it's two days, five days, or a whole season, the principle is the same - laying claim to public ground while you're not there.

I've already stated that I'm no defending the actions of others. I'm only fighting the principle that some believe they have superior rights to public ground than others (general description).

The first-come, first-served principle would apply...if you stayed there. It can't logically apply if you leave. Otherwise tons of people would have those claims to the same spot because they had been there once before.

RW

PS Is the Salton Sea considered a wildlife area, refuge, etc.?
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#96 Crimson Crusher

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Posted 01 February 2010 - 10:46 PM

There was a little more to the story but to much to write. The one guy in the blind I could tell just by his body language and some things he said he felt wrong about it, on the other hand the other guy tried to tell me he helped build the blind lol same guy that was bummed I was taking my deeks with me laugh.gif .
I for one would not set down in someone elses spread and claim it. that seems pretty hard up to me . To each there own. Ive hunted a few of the boat blinds but we didn't try and beat any one there we came in an hr after shoot time and looked for one that was empty. Different strokes for different folks.

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#97 Crimson Crusher

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Posted 01 February 2010 - 11:07 PM

HDD Dude you will make a great lawyer your already full of youself.. You call some one lazy but you got no problem PM ing people to to find were to hunt on the refuge do you, how about you go down there and do your own foot work Drive around scout. Wait the would entail time and money and work wouldn't it. Talk about the pot calling the kettle black. I wish I had better less offensive words HDD sorry!

I didn't no hunting was a competition smiley-shakehead-blue.gif

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#98 goose gobbler

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Posted 01 February 2010 - 11:34 PM

QUOTE (Lujack @ Feb 1 2010, 06:24 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I think there are two different issues comming into play here. The first one is a guy who sets up his blind and decoys for a one, two, or three day hunt on public land, and then takes his crap out when he is done. The second is a guy who builds a permanant blind in a public area and expects that no one else will hunt it. In the second scenario, I too can call BS on him trying to reserve a section of public land to call his own for a season. The first scenario, however, is a classic "first come first served" situation. I for the life of me can't figure out why a hunter could possibly not respect this. If we are to use the "public land" letter of the law, a guy could set up a blind ten feet from another guy's blind and be perfectly legal. Do we really need more laws to dictate courtesy and commen sense? The more I think about this topic the more I can't believe the arguments against the original post. Un-fricken'-believable. It takes all kinds I guess.



Im curious. Are you are saying the first guy is ok to leave his decoys out overnight to reserve a spot because he is coming back tomorrow. If so I completely disagree.

Example: I hunt mendota on the closer. On sat I was about 200-250 yds away from where the birds wanted to be. I made sure I left sat earlier then the guy on the X and got back in line so that I could get on the X for Sun. As im leaving the parking lot I see him pull in so I know hes coming and I know im gonna get the X. So I bust my butt sun trying to get to the X and then I see he left his decoys there. So are you saying its still his spot because he is coming out that day. Heck no.True I would not expect or want to hunt over his decoys but thats BS. Thats a hunter taking advantage of the morals and ethics of other hunters. He knows/ hopes everybody will move on down the road. Im not sure whos worse the guy leaving the stuff or the guy hunting over his setup.

#99 Waterfowlsniper

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Posted 02 February 2010 - 12:19 AM

Since nobody can find any law against leaving your deeks out on public land... Whether or not you have any intention of coming back and hunting over them the next day, what then is wrong with what Mike did? He took the risk that someone would come steal his decoys or some Douche guy to come and try to hunt over them. It is not about anyone trying to Reserve a spot its about being smart and conserving your time and energy. He picked up HIS things and went somewhere else. There is no excuse for someone to lie about helping build something when they didn't and or not give the other persons decoy bag back so they can take THEIR things and go somewhere else. Nobody is even saying if you leave your decoys out you are saying I OWN this plot of land and nobody has the right to come near it... It is not laziness and it is not arrogance its being smart and preparing for your hunt in advance.

Everytime you leave your camp, do you pack up your tent and roll up your sleeping bag and put away your grill and dismantle your lantern just because you are going to be gone for 12 hours? I don't think so. And by leaving your tent and other camp gear are you claiming that plot of land as your own with exclusive rights to its use... NO... If someone else thinks they are entitled to use your gear because it was set up there and they got there when nobody was around and lied about it being theirs, they are the lazy arrogant ones.

HDD is it lazy to buy a box of shells when you can reload them yourself? Is it lazy to reload them at home when you can reload them one by one while you are in your blind? Is it lazy to buy sandwiches a burrito or blind snacks? Is it lazy to buy your decoys instead of carving them and painting them yourself? I don't know why you think laziness is even an issue here. Its about efficiency and you should spend your own time a little more efficiently than trying to defend your position when it seems you are lazy enough to PM people to find out where to hunt instead of doing it the non-lazy way and going out there yourself and figuring it out first hand.
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#100 Rooster

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Posted 02 February 2010 - 05:51 AM

HDD, Is the reason your so hell bent on making your point the fact that you deal with this problem alot in WA? Don't tell me you have taken claim in the same situation? Public ground or not......if you come upon someone elses set up you need to move on!!!!! It's all out of respect,ethics, and being able to adjust as a hunter. If you or anyone else doesn't see it this way you need to put yourself in check as a hunter.
It would be kinda like if you were camping on public ground and you left your girlfriend or wife in the tent as you were out hiking or fishing. Then you came back to find someone in the tent with her...... Ya it's public ground but it's your tent and your girlfriend or wife thats gettin screwed.( No punn intended).
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#101 hronk

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Posted 02 February 2010 - 07:03 AM

Waterfowl sniper: What do you mean its not about reserving a spot. Haven't you been reading this whole thread? That is what this post is all about. And the bits about leaving your tents in a campground un attended or your girlfriends in your tents have nothing to do with this topic. > It seems to be getting a little childish isn't it....hronk

#102 HereDuckyDucky

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Posted 02 February 2010 - 07:48 AM

QUOTE (Crimson Crusher @ Feb 1 2010, 11:07 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
HDD Dude you will make a great lawyer your already full of youself.. You call some one lazy but you got no problem PM ing people to to find were to hunt on the refuge do you, how about you go down there and do your own foot work Drive around scout. Wait the would entail time and money and work wouldn't it. Talk about the pot calling the kettle black. I wish I had better less offensive words HDD sorry!

I didn't no hunting was a competition smiley-shakehead-blue.gif


Taking words out of context meant for specific application and trying to generalize will never get you very far with anyone who actually has the brain power to pay attention throughout a debate. Let's try and stay on task.

I've never asked for spots; and I've rarely asked for advice. But if asking for advice is somehow analogous to what we've been discussing, then, please reason it out so that we all can understand your logical brilliance.

Regarding hunting and competition, again, you've run away from context. I've merely said that people who leave decoys out overnight do so, at least partly, in an effort to avoid having to "compete" with other hunters in the morning. I would love to hear any arguments to the contrary. Again, impress me with your wisdom and reason.

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#103 HereDuckyDucky

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Posted 02 February 2010 - 08:01 AM

QUOTE (Waterfowlsniper @ Feb 2 2010, 12:19 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Since nobody can find any law against leaving your deeks out on public land... Whether or not you have any intention of coming back and hunting over them the next day, what then is wrong with what Mike did? He took the risk that someone would come steal his decoys or some Douche guy to come and try to hunt over them. It is not about anyone trying to Reserve a spot its about being smart and conserving your time and energy. He picked up HIS things and went somewhere else. There is no excuse for someone to lie about helping build something when they didn't and or not give the other persons decoy bag back so they can take THEIR things and go somewhere else. Nobody is even saying if you leave your decoys out you are saying I OWN this plot of land and nobody has the right to come near it... It is not laziness and it is not arrogance its being smart and preparing for your hunt in advance.


Whether it's his intent or not, inherent in placing decoys prematurely is the idea that the spot is taken and that no one else should / can hunt there. It's puts the other hunt in the ethical dilemma, even though it was his decision initially. You've already classified people who hunt there as douches; would you change your mind if they had respectfully picked up Mike's things before they started hunting? If so, then we're getting closer to an equal understanding.

QUOTE (Waterfowlsniper @ Feb 2 2010, 12:19 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Everytime you leave your camp, do you pack up your tent and roll up your sleeping bag and put away your grill and dismantle your lantern just because you are going to be gone for 12 hours? I don't think so. And by leaving your tent and other camp gear are you claiming that plot of land as your own with exclusive rights to its use... NO... If someone else thinks they are entitled to use your gear because it was set up there and they got there when nobody was around and lied about it being theirs, they are the lazy arrogant ones.

If you want to analogize camping to hunting, let's steer away from generalities. We have to look at what is inherent in camping versus what is inherent in hunting. In its most basic sense, camping involves a "camp" where people intend to stay overnight. Therefore your use of that public area extends throughout the trip because leaving your gear there is inherently part of camping. Anyone disagree? Duck hunting, on the other hand, incorporates setting decoys, shooting ducks, and a whole gamut of other activities. None of which require or even infer that people should set up there decoys, leave them, and return the next day to hunt. I don't buy your analogy, but feel free to expand it.


QUOTE (Waterfowlsniper @ Feb 2 2010, 12:19 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
HDD is it lazy to buy a box of shells when you can reload them yourself? Is it lazy to reload them at home when you can reload them one by one while you are in your blind? Is it lazy to buy sandwiches a burrito or blind snacks? Is it lazy to buy your decoys instead of carving them and painting them yourself? I don't know why you think laziness is even an issue here. Its about efficiency and you should spend your own time a little more efficiently than trying to defend your position when it seems you are lazy enough to PM people to find out where to hunt instead of doing it the non-lazy way and going out there yourself and figuring it out first hand.


I understand your efficiency argument, and I think you make a great point that laziness and efficiency are very hard to distinguish. Like I said before, I wish I had a better word to describe it.

RW
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#104 HereDuckyDucky

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Posted 02 February 2010 - 08:04 AM

QUOTE (Rooster @ Feb 2 2010, 05:51 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
HDD, Is the reason your so hell bent on making your point the fact that you deal with this problem alot in WA?


Never have seen it in WA. Not only are there laws strictly forbidding it, for the reasons I've argued, but it would also be incredibly looked down upon as unethical despite its illegality.

QUOTE (Rooster @ Feb 2 2010, 05:51 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Don't tell me you have taken claim in the same situation? Public ground or not......if you come upon someone elses set up you need to move on!!!!! It's all out of respect,ethics, and being able to adjust as a hunter. If you or anyone else doesn't see it this way you need to put yourself in check as a hunter.


Like I said, I've never seen it. And I've already explained in previous posts what I would do if I had - namely (1) move on and hunt elsewhere or (2) if I really wanted that spot, I would respectfully collect the gear and set it aside for the original owner.

QUOTE (Rooster @ Feb 2 2010, 05:51 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
It would be kinda like if you were camping on public ground and you left your girlfriend or wife in the tent as you were out hiking or fishing. Then you came back to find someone in the tent with her...... Ya it's public ground but it's your tent and your girlfriend or wife thats gettin screwed.( No punn intended).

Answered this in a previous post.

RW
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#105 calfowler

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Posted 02 February 2010 - 08:53 AM

HereDuckyDucky, LET IT GO !!!!! We have heard your opinion and most poeple agree "Public land is first come first serve". People have a right to their opionion and so do you but to debate every statement that everybody post is RIDICULES. You act like you are going to prove everybody wrong and yourself right. I for one, don't care what you have to say after you have the Audacity to call "ILoveSprig" a Lazy Tool. You obviusly don't know Steve. He is the farthest thing from a lazy hunter as there is. He scouts and hunts more than anyone I know. He helps out fellow hunters and juniors more than anybody I have ever met. He helps non profit organizations such as CWA, DU, Turkey Federation and helped organize FOW. Steve a "Tool", I don't think so. I would call him a sportsman and a gentleman but never a "tool". The fact that you would call him this just because you disagree with one of his statement is wrong. You are proving that you are nothing more than an argumentative internet hero. As Forrest Gump would say "Thats all I have to say about that". Calfowler
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